TUNNELS GET US TO 300PPM.........
Correctly guess summertime Northern Arctic Ice extent as per NSIDC and I will buy you a six pack of your favorite root beer. Under 10 dollars and over 21 please!!!
PATENT PENDING!
Not only can the tunnels weaken a hurricane and restore summertime Northern Arctic Ice extent but they can also make many many Mega Watts to sell to the public to pay for the project and make a nice profit from them. It just depends on how much cooling you want from them while in cooling phase. A great advantage is the ability to REGULATE SST's over anytime period with them. Can also be used with OTEC technology.Importation of Fossil Fuels are are no longer needed and they can restore our climate back to what it was prior to the industrial revolution.The benefits from them are in YOUR favor!
New graphic. PATENT PENDING
quote:
Yes, I have spoken with Patrick, and, yes, a scheme somewhat like the one he describes could weaken hurricanes threatening places like Miami that have strong western-margin currents just offshore. There are, however, numerous qualifications.
The scheme that we discussed involved an array of several rows devices across the Gulfstream. Each device would be a rectangular duct 140 m long and 10 by 14 m in cross section. Normally the devices would be moored horizontally at a depth of 100m with their long axes aligned with the current flow. They would be nearly neutrally buoyant. When a hurricane approached, ballast at the downstream end of the channel would be released, allowing the device to float up to a 45 deg angle. Cold water entering the upstream end would flow up to the surface and mix with the warmer water there. Since the mixture would be negatively buoyant, it would sink. But mixing due to several (3-10) lines of these devices could cool the surface waters of the Gulfstream by 1-2C, enough to weaken an Andrew-like hurricane from category 5 to category 3. A rough calculation indicates that a device every 100 m on each line of moorings (~1000 devices per ~100 km line) and 3-10 lines of moorings would be required. My guess is that it would cost $250K to fabricate and deploy a single device, but there might be economies of scale. One might also be able to optimize the size and spacing of the devices.
Let's say that careful calculation told us that 4 lines of 1000 devices each would do the trick. At $0.25M per device, the cost works out to 4*1000*($0.25M) = $1000M. The actual cost might range from a few hundred million to a small multiple of a (US = 1000M) billion. One would want to do a detailed simulation before defining the scope of the project, but the basic notion is conversion of some of the kinetic energy of the Gulfstream into gravitational potential energy of the mixed water column. Again, I've not done that detailed simulation, only back-of-the-envelope calculations.
Activation of the array would require accurate forecasting since it would take several days for the effect to make its way from south of the Dry Tortugas (optimum location for protecting the maximum amount of shoreline) to the landfall point.
South Florida gets hit by a category 4 or 5 hurricane at every few years, but the really damaging ones like Andrew tend to be once-a-generation events, or less frequent. The array would need to be deployed and maintained for a long time between activations that actually safeguard property, although false alarms would not be particularly costly. Annual maintenance could easily exceed 10% of initial deployment cost. Bear in mind that Key West to Jacksonville is the only stretch of US coastline where this strategy would work. The other vulnerable sites, Houston-Galveston and New Orleans, lack the necessary strong offshore currents. While Georgia and the Carolinas also experience many hurricane landfalls and have the Gulfstream offshore, most of these cyclones are already weakening because of vertical shear of the horizontal wind so that a second installation north of Jacksonville would be much less useful.
There has been a lot of talk about using wave and current energy to cool the ocean ahead of hurricanes. My general conclusion is that while these ideas might be made to work, the proponents underestimate the scope of the required effort, as well as the political will and recurring cost necessary to keep the project going in the long intervals between really damaging hurricanes. Skeptic that I am, I think that wiser land-use policy and more rigorous building standards are much more cost-effective and more politically feasible. A proof-of-concept that might entail deploying a half dozen devices has some appeal, but I think that there are more promising ways to spend disaster-prevention money.
Best regards,
Hugh Willoughby
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10. cyclonebuster 8:57 PM GMT on August 15, 2011 +1
Quoting LRandyB:
LOL You're persistent... I'll give you that!
I didn't think there was ever an argument over whether or not the idea would work. If you can cool the ocean surface, you'll weaken a storm. That's a known. And the method you suggest could certainly do that. But the problem is (and the gist of the information you posted says it) that it is not cost effective. The literally billions of dollars it would cost to deploy and millions if not billions of dollars it would take to maintain such an array is better spent in some other method such as better hurricane proof construction.
Ah! But there is a HUGE and GIGANTIC power factor associated with them also! That will pay the bills and make them profitable also! You with me? I am going to need quite a few electricians about 4000 of them. LOL!
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New record low July ice extent this year. Tunnels remove the new shipping routes due to GHG warming marked in red.
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TUNNELS LEFT IN COOLING MODE FOR KATIA & LEE. So far over three days of cooling the tunnels have cooled a swath of water 40 miles wide by 360 miles long or 14,400 square miles thus far protecting all of the Keys up the East coast to Cape Canaveral Fla. and the GOM states for each tunnel location one in the Yucatan Current and the other at Dry Tortuga s Florida. Total area cooled so far is 28,800 square miles.Stay Tuned for tomorrows results!
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TUNNELS LEFT IN COOLING MODE FOR KATIA & LEE. So far over three days of cooling the tunnels have cooled a swath of water 40 miles wide by 360 miles long or 14,400 square miles thus far protecting all of the Keys up the East coast to Cape Canaveral Fla. and the GOM states for each tunnel location one in the Yucatan Current and the other at Dry Tortuga s Florida. Total area cooled so far is 28,800 square miles.Stay Tuned for tomorrows results!
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You like?
15N 86W
Here I am TB!
I knew long ago this storm would form over the warmest waters!
Upwelling? Cooling waters? I live along a cold water coast and it sucks! I'd rather be on a tropical beach, sipping a margarita and taking my chances with a Cat 5. Next you'll want to destroy tornadoes and squash the dreams of storm chasers nationwide. You are truly a buzzkill... and completely insane. Have a nice day...
????????
What is the temp of the Gulfstream at depth of intake(on average)?
And if your very good invention was used on a large scale, wouldnt it have the effect of warming the waters at depth?
Good question. Here's what happens. Let's say for example it can tap into 50 degree F. water at depth and it mixes with 90 degree F water at the surface then after the mixing of the water you get an average temperature of 70 degree F. water near the surface.This is not to say we need to go that deep to get the desired effect we want.... So your concern is what happens to the water below the inlet and if it can warm do to the effect the tunnels create ? It is warming now somewhat from what I have been reading but I am sure that is because we have been warming the surface with Fossil Fuel GHG's. Basically,the warmer you make the surface water the warmer the water at depth will become. This idea cools the surface water so the water at depth should also cool. There are other factors involved also. Heat rises so the water below the inlet should not be affected. None of the heat is being transported below the level of the intake and the sun no longer heats water at that depth that much. So warming water at depth below the inlet should not occur due to these reasons.
Every tropical storm season, when hurricanes threaten, resourceful Americans offer ingenious ideas on how to deflect or destroy them.
Here's one: Dump enough absorbent material, similar to Kitty Litter, into the storm's eye to soak up the warm moisture powering it, and so deflate it.
There's just one problem with this and virtually all of the suggestions that helpful citizens send in to the experts. Hurricanes are just too big and powerful for anything we humans do to have an effect.
Take the Kitty Litter idea. Hurricane expert Hugh Willoughby estimates that it would take at least 100,000 tons, and probably more like 1 million tons, to reduce the force of a Category 5 hurricane.
Just getting a mountain of the stuff to the hurricane's eye would be a logistical nightmare: It'd take more than 1,000 sorties by heavy-lift military air transports, like C-5s, and even then it's doubtful the job would be successful.
"You would basically have to fly constantly for days," said Willoughby, a former head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Hurricane Research Division, who is now a distinguished research professor in the Earth and Environment Department of Florida International University.
All right, so using Kitty Litter-like material is impractical. But scientists also have given due consideration to, and rejected, other hurricane-killing proposals like these:
• Tow an iceberg into the path of a storm, as tropical systems require warm water to flourish. Or, pour supertanker-loads of dry ice into the waters ahead of it.
• Use giant mirrors on orbiting space satellites to redirect sunlight away from the tropics and cool the ocean there. Or, shoot a bunch of opaque carbon into the atmosphere to become a giant awning to achieve the same effect.
• Have submarines set off underwater explosions to suck cooler water to the surface and starve the storms of heat. Or, in the same vein, place giant tubs in a storm's path that would fill with warm water and, via tubes, exchange it for water from the bottom (this was billionaire Bill Gates' idea).
• Float giant fans on barges and flip the "on" switch to blow storms apart.
• Finally, and perhaps the most frequent suggestion: nuke 'em. Scientists say that won't work because while nuclear bombs can destroy structures, their energy would simply pass through a storm's wind field, leaving the eye intact. That's not to mention the nasty side effect that nukes would produce: a hurricane spreading not just wind and rain, but lethal radioactive fallout.
Officials at the National Hurricane Center say they understand why people want to obliterate hurricanes; on average, tropical systems cause more than $5 billion in damage and kill more than 20 people each year in the United States alone. So even if the government needed to spend tens of millions of dollars to weaken a storm, that would be a bargain.
Unfortunately, no matter how "carefully reasoned," none of the concepts are workable in this day and age, said Chris Landsea, hurricane center science and operations officer.
"Perhaps if the time comes when men and women can travel at nearly the speed of light to the stars, we will then have enough energy for brute-force intervention in hurricane dynamics," he said.
Landsea noted that even weak hurricanes are too massive to be "modified" by mere human efforts. As for major hurricanes, their overall strength is nearly unfathomable. Consider Hurricane Andrew, the Category 5 system that struck South Florida 20 years ago in 1992, he said.
"The heat energy released around the eye was 5,000 times the combined heat and electrical power generation of the Turkey Point nuclear power plant," he said. "The kinetic energy of the wind at any instant was equivalent to that released by a nuclear warhead."
Dennis Feltgen, hurricane center spokesman, said there's an "uptick" of hurricane-killing ideas whenever storms threaten to strike the U.S. coast. When Hurricane Irene was approaching the Mid-Atlantic last August, he said, he received about a dozen proposals in four days.
"They're all well intentioned, just not feasible," he said.
Some ideas aren't so outlandish. Willoughby at one time thought placing current-driven pumps on the bottom of the Gulf Stream to drive cold water to the surface might starve storms of their warm-water fuel.
But on reflection, he said, he realized "messing with the Gulf Stream" might alter the Earth's climate patterns and trigger another ice age.
In 2009, Gates supported the idea of placing a series of tubs in the path of a hurricane to funnel tons of cold water to the surface. Considering the idea's originator was the founder of Microsoft, and one of the most successful entrepreneurs and business people of his generation, scientists initially took the concept seriously.
Yet, the Gates plan too had huge holes. Willoughby said it would require hundreds of thousands of tubs, placed throughout the cone of uncertainty — an enormous expanse that can cover the watery equivalent of a U.S. state in area — just to combat one hurricane. And they still might not cool the surface fast enough.Some people, like Marshall Rosen, a Delray Beach retiree, have suggested converting the Sahara in North Africa into a lush green area as a means to stop that sweltering desert from generating tropical waves — the germs of the most powerful Cape Verde hurricanes.
"Put grass in there and take water from the Atlantic to irrigate it," he said. "If you can eliminate hurricanes, that's a lot less damage in this country."
The problem there, however, is that it would cost trillions of dollars and require the approval of numerous African nations, some of which are not particularly concerned about weather problems in the United States. Further, even if the plan worked, it would only shift the production of tropical waves to some other place on Earth, Willoughby said.
The U.S. government did try to use science to weaken tropical storms under a project called Storm Fury, which ran from the early 1960s to the early 1980s. It seeded four hurricanes with silver iodide crystals, a rain-producing agent. The idea was to create a second eyewall and strangle the original eyewall.
The project failed utterly, as scientists discovered hurricanes commonly undergo a replacement cycle, which includes building a second eyewall.
Even so, Storm Fury helped advance hurricane research and forecasting, said Frank Marks, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Hurricane Research Division in Miami.
The project also helped scientists realize that by trying to alter weather patterns, there could be unforeseen and potentially catastrophic consequences, such as accelerating global warming.
Scientists note that hurricanes act as the Earth's natural heat valves, and the oceans could warm to the point where they would be unable to sustain life were it not for tropical storms periodically bleeding off their heat.
"It comes down to what risks are we willing to take to try to mitigate them?" Marks said.
Landsea said rather than thinking about how to weaken storms, authorities would be wiser to focus on strengthening building codes, improving public hurricane preparedness and making tropical forecasts more accurate.
"Currently, the best solution is not to try to alter or destroy the tropical cyclones, but just learn to co-exist better with them," he said.
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Thank you tstormtime......
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The short time - My ultimate goal is to speed up how quickly we respond to climate change. If we break down the problem into pieces then reconstruct those pieces into action, then we can speed up our response. We have to build the opportunity for snowballing successes to permeate society. We have to start rolling those snowballs in the short term. We have to focus on the policies that advance carbon-dioxide free production of energy. We have to focus on how to manage the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere – we can’t merely cool the Earth and let carbon dioxide grow unabated. We have to investigate how we will sustainably manage our climate our economies and our people. These are all activities that we must start in the short term. We need to give those who will be acting on the generational time span the tools to do something. We will have failed if in fifty years people are still arguing that we should do something. We will have been irresponsible if in fifty years the portfolio of choices on what to do is as small and ambiguous as it is today. Short-term actions are critical to generational success."
I say lets build 1 of them first Dr. Rood and from there we can calculate what 10,100 or 1000 of them could do.....Then in 10 years after they are built we will see summertime Northern Arctic Ice returning to pre-industrial revolution extent/volume in the 11th year......
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Orbital Elements at Epoch 2456320.5 (2013-Jan-28.0) TDB
Reference: JPL 10 (heliocentric ecliptic J2000)
Element Value Uncertainty (1-sigma) Units
e 1.000361064213819 6.2018e-05
a -3876.257341982139 666.22 AU
********q 1.399577809742848 0.00024987 AU*********
i 129.0222811410699 0.0022585 deg
node 300.9647541430521 0.0041938 deg
peri 2.430729734150096 0.0022181 deg
M 359.9974044119477 0.00066894 deg
tp 2456956.051276389943
(2014-Oct-25.55127639) 0.063444 JED
period n/a
n/a n/a
n/a d
yr
n 4.08399471249347E-6 1.0529e-06 deg/d
Q n/a n/a AU
Orbit Determination Parameters
# obs. used (total) 212
data-arc span 162 days
first obs. used 2012-10-04
last obs. used 2013-03-15
planetary ephem. DE405
SB-pert. ephem. SB405-CPV-2
fit RMS .41225
data source ORB
producer Otto Matic
solution date 2013-Mar-18 15:50:45
Additional Information
Earth MOID = .385904 AU
T_jup = -0.919
:)
Yes but we need some pretty deep water to set them in..
Locations where the tide runs in and out between Islands may be a good location where the velocity is really ripping like down in the Keys..
Climate change: Solutions to a big problem
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Though Letro & Landsea slammed tunnels last week at the Governor's Hurricane Conference in Fort Lauderdale...
Nobody has said no yet about you coming back without your tunnels to Dr Masters' blog. Hasn't been run past everyone, so no promises yet either.
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