Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Challenging Bill Proenza's QuikSCAT numbers
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 05:04 PM GMT del 04 Luglio 2007 +4
A political storm engulfed the National Hurricane Center this week, with a majority of the senior hurricane forecasters calling for Bill Proenza's removal as director. The most visible issue revolved around the extraordinary focus on the aging QuikSCAT satellite. The public argument put forth by Mr. Proenza was that QuikSCAT data was so vital to hurricane track forecasting that without it, track forecast errors would increase significantly, leading to larger warning areas and increased costs for evacuation and emergency planning.

Focus on QuikSCAT--out of proportion?
On March 16th Proenza went public with the QuikSCAT concerns and associated statistics for the first time, stating that "two- and three-day forecasts of a storm's path would be affected. The two-day forecast could be 10 percent worse while the three-day one could be affected up to 16 percent," with the conclusion," that would mean longer stretches of coastline would have to be placed under warnings, and more people than necessary would have to evacuate." As a result of these comments, a perception arose in the public and among lawmakers that without QuikSCAT, NHC would not be able to provide accurate hurricane forecasts. Legislation was hastily introduced into both the House and Senate to provide an immediate replacement for the $375 million satellite.

Proenza's statements raised several questions: 1) Why the focus on track forecast errors in landfalling situations, when QuikSCAT was widely known to be used in intensity forecasting and for tropical cyclones too far at sea to be accessed by the Hurricane Hunters? 2) Could such specific and significant gains in track forecast error truly be attributed to QuikSCAT? Where did these numbers come from, and why was no uncertainty being attached to them?

Since QuikSCAT data became available, starting in 1999, average track errors for 48-hour and 72-hour forecasts have been reduced by 43 miles and 62 miles respectively. Fully one quarter of this improvement was being attributed by Proenza to QuikSCAT. This was an extraordinary performance increase to attribute to one satellite, and seemed doubtful.

We find out where the QuikSCAT numbers came from
In mid-June, Margie Kieper and I asked Proenza to comment on how he got his QuikSCAT numbers. He cited an unpublished study, "A Two Season Impact Study of Four Satellite Data Types and Rawinsonde Data in the NCEP Global Data Assimilation System", by Tom H. Zapotocny, James A. Jung, John F. LeMarshall and Russ E. Treadon. I contacted one of the authors, who informed me that the study was submitted for publication on January 26, 2007, and accepted for publication in the journal Weather and Forecasting on May 23, 2007. It will probably appear in the October-November time frame, according to the publisher. This raises an immediate problem, since only a privileged few are able to read unpublished research. This limits the possibilities for an informed debate on the issue, and basing important policy decisions on unpublished research is thus normally to be avoided. However, making accurate hurricane forecasts is important enough that such considerations can be excused. Proenza didn't give me any details on the study, other than the fact that QuikSCAT data improved 72-hour and 48-hour hurricane track forecasts by 16% and 10% respectively, for a select group of storms from the 2003 hurricane season. One of the authors graciously sent me a copy of the study, though, and after reading it, I had these observations:

1). The study looked at a very limited number of cases over a six-week period during 2003--only 19 cases were available for 72 hour forecasts. The 19 cases were not 19 storms, just 19 separate forecasts from the 4 hurricanes and 2 tropical storms that occurred during the 6-week study period. This sample is too small to draw definitive conclusions about the impact of the QuikSCAT on tropical cyclone forecasts. The two longest-lived storms during the test period were Fabian and Isabel, storms that spent the majority of their lifetimes far away from land. Since the quality of the observing network increases close to land, particulary when reconnaissance data from the Hurricane Hunters is available, it is reasonable to conclude that the impact of the QuikSCAT data for storms within 72 hours of landfall would be less than for the sample as a whole. The study was not primarily designed to study tropical cyclone track accuracy, so there was no separation out of the cases we really care about--storms 72 hours or less from landfall.

2). The study was done with only one model, the GFS. NHC official forecasts make use of several models, including the GFDL, UKMET, NOGAPS and ECMWF. Consequently, a change in the accuracy of a single model will have only a partial effect on NHC official forecast accuracy. As far as I know, there have not been studies done of the impact of QuikSCAT on tropical cyclone forecasts in the GFDL, UKMET or the ECMWF models. Past studies on the impact of dropsonde data from the Hurricane Hunters, however, show that the GFDL is less sensitive to these data than the GFS is.

3). When I attended the AMS hurricane conference in May 2006 in Monterey, I came across a poster presentation by Dr. Jim Goerss that evaluated the impact of QuikSCAT on the NOGAPS model. His study was far more comprehensive, and included 12 hurricanes, 5 typhoons, and 7 tropical storms from a 6-week period in 2004. The number of cases was 212 at 72 hours, eleven times as many as the study Proenza cites. Dr. Goerss found that QuikSCAT probably improved 24-hour track forecasts by 2.5% (90% confidence of this), but at all other forecast times (48, 72, 96, and 120 hours), QuikSCAT had no statistically significant effect (i.e., zero effect).

It is hard to compare the results from these two studies, since they used two different data assimilation systems. We do not know if they used all the data, or how they treated the vertical impact of the data. The uncertainties are high, and Proenza's simple statement that QuikSCAT data improves hurricane tracks forecasts by 10% and 16% is unreasonable, without at least making mention that these numbers are highly uncertain.

I believe that NHC official forecasts for landfalling storms in the Atlantic would not be significantly affected by the loss of the QuikSCAT satellite. I can't think of a hurricane scientist out there who would defend using a study with only 19 cases that didn't focus on landfalling storms, to make the case Proenza is making--particularly in light of the data from the unpublished Goerss study showing no effect of QuikSCAT data on NOGAPS model tropical cyclone track errors. Proenza should have at least attached some measure of uncertainty to his numbers, which he did not.

One could argue that the study cited by Proenza has undergone peer review, and is thus the only scientific study one can use to make arguments on QuikSCAT's effectiveness. The Goerss study has not been published in a journal, and has not undergone peer review. However, Proenza was making his QuikSCAT accuracy arguments in March, two months before the Zapotocny study he cited had been accepted for publication.

QuikSCAT misconceptions
The numbers pushed by Proenza have led to some potentially serious misconceptions about QuikSCAT. The Congressional Record has this to say about QuikSCAT:

"A single plane gathering data is like a tiny fishing line collecting data only along the single strand of the line. The satellite, on the other hand, provides rich, detailed data horizontally from one side of the storm to the other side, and vertically, from the ocean surface to the top of the storms swirling winds. The QuikSCAT is like a detailed MRI."

Well, QuikSCAT is not like an MRI, it just measures the ocean surface winds. In a letter written by Representatives Melancon and Klein in support of H.R. 2531, there are comments that data from the reconnaissance aircraft are inferior to the data from the QuikSCAT:

"Short-term options for replacing QuikSCAT include hurricane hunter aircraft, buoys, and foreign satellites--all of which will collectively produce inferior data."

There is not a hurricane forecaster anywhere that would trade hurricane hunter data for QuikSCAT. Lawmakers may start cutting aircraft reconnaissance with misconceptions like this. That would be a disaster.

I would hate to lose the QuikSCAT satellite, and have been calling for a replacement since before Mr. Proenza came on the job. QuickSCAT data is invaluable in identifying weak systems and in defining storm structure, particularly of outer wind radii of 34 knots and 50 knots. This is particularly true outside of the Atlantic, where there are no Hurricane Hunter flights, and in the Atlantic beyond where the Hurricane Hunters can reach. Track forecasts for tropical cyclones in the Pacific and Indian Oceans may benefit from QuikSCAT data, since Hurricane Hunter information is not available. QuikSCAT also helps identify when a tropical depression or tropical storm is intensifying.

Besides hurricanes, the QuickSCAT data is invaluable to the Ocean Prediction Center, which now issues hurricane force wind warnings for extratropical storms in the Atlantic and Pacific. Search and rescue missions, and the U.S. Navy also greatly benefit from QuikSCAT. QuikSCAT should be replaced, but not due to a rush knee-jerk reaction that will get us a replacement with old technology. NHC needs a "next-generation" scatterometer, one that has greatly improved capabilities to help tackle the structure and intensity problem. We should take our time, and deal with a gap in coverage, if it gets us an instrument that has higher resolution, higher saturation speed, and is not adversely affected by rain. Such a gap would not put the public at risk.

It greatly troubles me that the most visible and admired member of my profession has failed to use good science in his arguments for funding a replacement of the QuikSCAT satellite. The Director of the National Hurricane Center needs to be an able politician and good communicator, but being truthful with the science is a fundamental requirement of the job as well. Mr. Proenza has misrepresented the science on the QuikSCAT issue, and no longer has my support as director of the National Hurricane Center.

Other critical concerns--lost in the hubbub?
We strongly support many of the valid concerns Proenza has raised. Of particular concern are the slashing of critical research funding for the Joint Hurricane Testbed (JHT) from $1.7 million to $1 million, and the lack of adequate yearly increases to the National Hurricane Center budget. Both of these important concerns still remain to be addressed; they were quickly overshadowed by a frantic campaign by lawmakers to fund a new QuikSCAT satellite. The JHT provides the means for promising research to be tested in the NHC operational environment, usually resulting in a successful transition to an operational product at NHC. This program has been extremely successful, and its budget should have been increased, not slashed. As hurricane activity has increased dramatically over the last twelve years, NHC's budget should have increased accordingly, but it did not.

Proenza also raised legitimate concerns about NOAA's effort to promote their "Corporate Identity" by renaming the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service. The new organizations would be called the "NOAA Hurricane Center" and the "NOAA Weather Service". He also justly complained about NOAA's plan to spend between $1.5 million and $4 million on a "bogus" 200-year NOAA anniversary celebration.

While wanting to take a neutral stand as to whether to call for Proenza's dismissal, Senior NHC Hurricane Specialist Lixion Avila clearly shares the concerns that have been put forth by the other senior forecasters Richard Pasch, James Franklin, and Richard Knabb, and former director Max Mayfield. Avila noted, "If I [was] the director of the hurricane center, I would not spend my time fighting for QuikSCAT--I would be fighting to make sure that the reconnaissance planes are always there." That leaves a vacationing Jack Beven as the only senior hurricane forecaster to not comment publicly on the issue. Max Mayfield has refrained from making public comments on the deteriorating situation these past months, but all of his comments in the Miami Herald article lend support for the hurricane forecast staff. Given his previous experience in the position of NHC Director and his successful tenure, his feedback counts tremendously.

With the busiest part of hurricane season just a few weeks away, expect a decision on Bill Proenza's tenure to be made soon.

Jeff Masters and Margie Kieper

Having lost the support of most of his senior forecasters, and having misrepresented the science on the importance of the QuikSCAT satellite on hurricane forecasts, it would be best for Mr. Proenza to step down as director of the National Hurricane Center.

--Jeff Masters

Categories: Politics
  Permalink | A A A
Reader Comments
Display: 0, 50, 100, 200 Sort: Newest First - Order Posted
Viewing: 2001 - 2051

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44Blog Index

2001. CFLSW 10:20 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
"Shrug"
NHC has floater on it. Floater say Invest.
What ever that worth.
2002. CFLSW 10:21 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Pottery2

LoL
Love It.
2003. ustropics 10:24 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
is the florida blob an invest?


NHC nor NRL have declared it an invest. It's still situated over Florida and has no potential of becoming tropical and is of no issue besides the heavy rains it could produce over Florida.
2004. C2News 10:28 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Bocareader, I believe your statements were a little too harsh. If that is the way you feel, please try to say it in a nicer, more professional tone, and it will sound better. What you did was a personal attack. Thank you.
Member Since: Luglio 17, 2006 Posts: 73 Comments: 622
2005. leftyy420 10:33 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
ustropics

its not over florida no m,ore. looking at ir and visible sat imagery you can see an xposed llc ne of jacksonville.

yes it will likley not form anything but it is not still over florida by a long shot
hope this link works
Link

Member Since: Agosto 24, 2005 Posts: 35 Comments: 1987
2006. C2News 10:36 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
One can definitely see that lefty, thanks for that post! Very good
Member Since: Luglio 17, 2006 Posts: 73 Comments: 622
2007. pottery2 10:39 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
C2News, " a little too harsh "???
This guy comes to your house, you give him A drink, he says he does not think its mixed right, and demands that YOU leave ?????????
2009. pottery2 10:44 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Well I noticed that you did not attack anyone.
Go somewhere else man
2010. SCwxwatch 10:46 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
"please refrain from posting material not relevant to the discussion of tropical weather, or the topic of the blog entry itself. Please do not engage in personal attacks"


Pretty much say whatever we are blogging about.
Its like a radio If you don't like it turn it off.
2011. CFLSW 10:47 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
"please refrain from posting material not relevant to the discussion of tropical weather, or the topic of the blog entry itself. Hello!!!!!
Ok and I am not going to read the whole thing again but I do not remember the Doc. Saying in his post he feels Bill P. Should resign.
It may be ther I might have over looked it.
Did he say that in his blog. What is the topic of the blog? The Doc. Makes and can break any rule he wishes in his blog.
You say get back to hurricane info. This blog only runs from June to Nov.?
2012. Wecouldoit 10:48 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
I agree with BocaReader...there is a lot more to running a technical organization like the NHC than technology...enough! Lets get back to the forecast.
2013. SCwxwatch 10:51 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
How is 96L doing? Did It fall apart or is it still trying??
2014. CFLSW 10:52 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Wecouldoit
Please read both BocaReader's Post this page and page 40.
Do you still agree with how Boca said it?
2015. Altestic87 10:54 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
96L is an awesome fighter, in the Epsilon-mold.

96L Invest
2016. pottery2 10:54 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Enough of that horse manure.

Whats the thinking on the remains of 96 L ? How much rain do I expect here at 11n 61 w ?? Sat and Sun ??

Lets have a forecast on this, as I am planning a fishing trip this w/e.

Thanks
2017. SCwxwatch 10:54 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Sweet!! Chug on Little fella!!
2018. K8eCane 10:55 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
NHC nor NRL have declared it an invest. It's still situated over Florida and has no potential of becoming tropical and is of no issue besides the heavy rains it could produce over Florida.



the low is not over fla US
Member Since: Aprile 26, 2006 Posts: 5 Comments: 2375
2019. CFLSW 10:56 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Could someone tell me why the system off Florida could not develop into a tropical system? I have no clue. It looks impresive.
and Convection keeps firing even with sun up.
Dont bash me I really do not know.
2020. K8eCane 10:56 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
no potential of becoming tropical



explain please US
Member Since: Aprile 26, 2006 Posts: 5 Comments: 2375
2021. SCwxwatch 10:57 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Shear? I dont know either just guessing
2022. CFLSW 10:58 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
It keeps getting bigger and bigger LoL
2023. CFLSW 10:59 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Shear only 15knt.
2024. K8eCane 11:00 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
been watching it a while since early am ( was up with sciatica and a pain pill) and it had looked so impressive and didnt die off yet so i started wondering
Member Since: Aprile 26, 2006 Posts: 5 Comments: 2375
2025. Wecouldoit 11:01 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
No, of course not. I agree that the NHC politics are interesting but much more complicated than just QuickScat and funding at the government level (which is always very strange) I have nothing but respect for Dr. Masters. But..there is a lot more to running a technical organization like the NHC than technology...enough!
2026. SCwxwatch 11:02 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
I see that
Link
2027. Altestic87 11:04 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Both 96L and the soon-to=be 97L looking quite impressive this morning.
2028. JupiterFL 11:05 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Actually I have been around here for 3 years reading the blog. I don't post much unless there is a real storm. I have to agree with Boca on this one. While it is Dr. Masters blog, and he can do whatever he likes, I would like to make a suggestion. Dr. M used to only talk about the current situation in the tropics. Over the course of the past 2 years more and more posts have become slightly off center. Digest that as you wish. I personally think that having two bloggers a few years ago helped because you didn't feel the obligation to post everyday. Now that everyone is looking at you sometimes it becomes a reach for information. Most of us are just trying to learn about weather and make sure that their house is going to be standing in a week.
Member Since: Agosto 10, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 2146
2029. SCwxwatch 11:05 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Link

Water Vapor veiw
2030. CFLSW 11:10 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
I am sorry folks I know this thing off Florida will head east but no way is someone now going to tell me there is no way this will form to anything. I am the one that said early this am.
Is anyone watching the east coast of Florida.
And our local weather guy in tampa said earler this week we were going to have this happen today. but he did say it should not become much.
But it is looking alot better that 96L.
Just my uneducated worthless 2cents.
2032. SCwxwatch 11:15 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Posted By: Altestic87 at 11:13 AM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Very uneducated. And VERY worthless


Well Come on !! Tell us Why...GeeSh
2033. CFLSW 11:15 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Thanks Altestic87
Awsome personal attack.
2034. CFLSW 11:16 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
I have only asked why it would not but you and all your education has yet to tell me.
2035. SCwxwatch 11:18 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
*Jeapordy Theme*
2036. WPBHurricane05 11:18 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
From the 5:30 AM TWO:

AN ILL-DEFINED SURFACE LOW PRESSURE AREA LOCATED OVER THE FLORIDA
PENINSULA AND ADJACENT WATERS OF THE ATLANTIC OCEAN IS PRODUCING A
LARGE AREA OF DISORGANIZED SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS.
ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS ARE NOT FAVORABLE FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE
DEVELOPMENT.
HOWEVER...PERIODS OF LOCALLY HEAVY RAINFALL ARE
POSSIBLE OVER PORTIONS OF FLORIDA AND THE BAHAMA ISLANDS DURING THE
NEXT DAY OR SO.
Member Since: Luglio 31, 2006 Posts: 56 Comments: 7929
2037. CFLSW 11:19 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Posted By: Altestic87 at 11:04 AM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Both 96L and the soon-to=be 97L looking quite impressive this morning.



Whats the soon to be 97L you are talking about?
2038. SCwxwatch 11:20 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Thanks WBP But why are the conditions not favorable. What is hampering it?
2039. pottery2 11:20 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
AAAAAGGGGGHHHHH.

Its the return of Theorem # 1 !!!!!!!!!
2040. Thundercloud01221991 11:23 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
good morning
Member Since: Agosto 1, 2006 Posts: 28 Comments: 3671
2041. SCwxwatch 11:23 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Morning TC
2042. CFLSW 11:25 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Posted By: SCwxwatch at 11:20 AM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Thanks WBP But why are the conditions not favorable. What is hampering it?


Thats what I am trying to find out.
Shear from 6am map says 15 to 20knt unless I am reading it wrong. I could be. I know trough is coming off the coast to the north. But wich was it jean or francis that stayed out there as 2 troughs came off east coast and just had the B**** do loop de loos and sent it straigh into us.
2043. Thundercloud01221991 11:26 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
I see that 96L still does not want to give up
Member Since: Agosto 1, 2006 Posts: 28 Comments: 3671
2044. CFLSW 11:27 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Just trying to learn what to look at to tell that ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS ARE NOT FAVORABLE FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE
DEVELOPMENT
2045. pottery2 11:28 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Out till later
2046. SCwxwatch 11:28 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
I know thats what seems so hard about this blog If you don't KNOW or arent in a click you don't get much. It's pretty sad seeing as 2 of us are honestly trying to find out what the deal is and being put off...
2047. Altestic87 11:30 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
There are 20 knots of shear that's unfavorable

Look at 96L! You gotta LOVE IT!!
2048. CFLSW 11:31 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
LoL My questions are hardly ever answered.
I'm not worthy I'm not worthy.
2049. SCwxwatch 11:33 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Posted By: CFLSW at 11:31 AM GMT on July 06, 2007.

LoL My questions are hardly ever answered.
I'm not worthy I'm not worthy.


I have the same issue. I thought maybe I was being filtered but i played with the filter and that isnt the problem.

There are a couple on here that are very nice folks and will answer back , Those know who they are , I hold them in high regaurd.
2050. CFLSW 11:34 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Uh ok I am dumb but not stupid. 20knt is not to high. Storms can and do form in 20nt shear.
If that was the case 96L would have been torn apart under the 25 and 30knt shear it has endured. Jean and Francis both had over 20knts
As they formed.
2051. PensacolaBuoy 11:34 AM GMT del 06 Luglio 2007    
Did you notice NOAA satellite page? Assigned Invest,
Floater 2 to FL blob.
Member Since: Luglio 28, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 348

Viewing: 2001 - 2051

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44Blog Index

New Comment
Community Standards Policy Comments will take a few seconds to appear.
Post Your Comments
Please sign in to post comments.
Not only will you be able to leave comments on this blog, but you'll also have the ability to upload and share your photos in our Wunder Photos section.
About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

Local Weather
Partly Cloudy
41 °F
Parzialmente nuvoloso
Community Activity