Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Pakistan's Katrina; 94L could develop in Gulf of Mexico
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 03:23 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010 +4
The monsoon season of 2010 continues to generate havoc in Asia, as lingering rains from the latest monsoon low continue to affect hard-hit Pakistan, China, and India. At least 702 are now reported dead and 1,042 are missing in China's Gansu province, due to torrential monsoon rains that triggered a deadly landslide and extreme flooding on Sunday. At least 137 died in floods and landslides in the neighboring Indian state of Kashmir over the weekend, with 500 people missing. Monsoon flooding and landslides have also killed at least 65 people in Afghanistan in the past two weeks. But no country has suffered more than Pakistan, where monsoon floods have destroyed huge portions of the nation's infrastructure and killed at least 1600 people. The number of people affected or needing assistance has been estimated to be as high as 13 million people--8% of the nation's population. The disaster is the worst natural disaster in Pakistan's history, and is rightfully being called "Pakistan's Katrina."


Figure 1. The heavy thunderstorms of a monsoon depression lie over northwestern Pakistan near Islamabad in this visible satellite image taken by NASA's MODIS instrument on July 29, 2010. Image credit: NASA.

Monsoons: a primer
In summer, the sun warms up land areas more strongly than ocean areas. This occurs because wind and ocean turbulence mix the ocean's absorbed heat into a "mixed layer" approximately 50 meters deep, whereas on land, the sun's heat penetrates at a slow rate to a limited depth. Furthermore, due to its molecular properties, water has the ability to absorb more heat than the solid materials that make up land. As a result of this summertime differential heating of land and ocean, a low pressure region featuring rising air develops over land areas. Moisture-laden ocean winds blow towards the low pressure region and are drawn upwards once over land. The rising air expands and cools, condensing its moisture into some of the heaviest rains on Earth--the monsoon. Monsoons operate via the same principle as the familiar summer afternoon sea breeze, but on a grand scale. Each summer, monsoons affect every continent on Earth except Antarctica, and are responsible for life-giving rains that sustain the lives of billions of people. In India, home for over 1.1 billion people, the monsoon provides 80% of the annual rainfall. However, monsoons have their dark side as well--hundreds of people in India and surrounding nations die in an average year in floods and landslides triggered by heavy monsoon rains. The most deadly flooding events usually come from monsoon depressions (also known as monsoon lows.) A monsoon depression is similar to (but larger than) a tropical depression. Both are spinning storms hundreds of kilometers in diameter with sustained winds of 50 - 55 kph (30 - 35 mph), nearly calm winds at their center, and generate very heavy rains. Each summer, approximately 6 - 7 monsoon depressions form over the Bay of Bengal and track westwards across India. Four monsoon depressions originated in the Bay of Bengal in the El Niño-weakened monsoon season of 2009. This year's first monsoon depression formed on July 24, crossed over India, and reached Pakistan on July 27. The rains increased in intensity over the next two days, peaking on July 29 and 30, when a low pressure system that moved across Pakistan from the west enhanced rainfall from the monsoon depression. Over the 3-day period July 28 - 30, torrential rains in excess of 8 inches (203 mm) fell in many regions of northwest Pakistan Rainfall amounts at two stations in the catchment basins of the Jhelum River and Indus River reached 19.49" (495 mm) for the month of July, and 7.56" (192 mm) fell in a single day, July 30, at Tarbela. A second monsoon depression arrived in Pakistan on August 3, and has brought additional heavy rains.

Are the this year's monsoon floods due to global warming?
No single weather event can be attributed to climate change, but a warming climate does load the dice in favor of heavier extreme precipitation events. This occurs because more water vapor can evaporate into a warmer atmosphere, increasing the chances of record heavy downpours. In a study published in Science in 2006, Goswami et al. found that the level of heavy rainfall activity in the monsoon over India had more than doubled in the 50 years since the 1950s, leading to an increased disaster potential from heavy flooding. Moderate and weak rain events decreased over the past 50 years, leaving the total amount of rain deposited by the monsoon roughly constant. The authors commented, "These findings are in tune with model projections and some observations that indicate an increase in heavy rain events and a decrease in weak events under global warming scenarios." We should expect to see an increased number of disastrous monsoon floods in coming decades if the climate continues to warm as expected. Since the population continues to increase at a rapid rate in the region, death tolls from monsoon flooding disasters are likely to climb dramatically in coming decades.

References
Goswami, et al., 2006, " Increasing Trend of Extreme Rain Events Over India in a Warming Environment", Science, 1 December 2006:Vol. 314. no. 5804, pp. 1442 - 1445 DOI: 10.1126/science.1132027

Dave's Landslide blog has some great discussions of the flooding and destruction wrought by the terrible monsoon rains this year in Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, and China.

Donations urgently needed
The massive humanitarian crisis in Pakistan requires a huge response by the international community. Wunderblogger Dr. Ricky Rood, author of our Climate Change Blog, has a friend working in Pakistan who underscored the desperate situation there:

This is the worst natural disaster in the history of Pakistan in terms of number of people and area affected. Although not as many people have been killed as in the 2005 earthquake, we have already nearly 900,000 displaced persons thus far just in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Crops are destroyed; shops, hotels, and other business have simply been swept away in Swat, which had just this year been cleared of Taliban and was on the way to recovery; and districts closer to Peshawar and parts of Peshawar district are still, or perhaps again after yesterday/today, under water. After the immediate emergency response, it will be years of rebuilding to replace what has been lost and to start to develop again. I know you have the power to control the weather, so if you cold give us a week or two without more rain at least we could keep the helicopters flying and give people a chance to go to their homes, recover what might still be there, set up tents if we can get enough to them, and start to clean up."

She gave the following recommendations for charities that do work in the flood-ravaged zone, and are effective at getting aid to those who need it the most:

Doctors Without Borders

The International Red Cross

MERLIN medical relief charity

The mobile giving service mGive allows one to text the word "SWAT" to 50555. The text will result in a $10 donation to the UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) Pakistan Flood Relief Effort.

She mentioned that it is better to send money to the organizations doing the relief work than to try to organize shipments of goods.


Figure 2. Morning radar image of 94L from the Key West radar.

94L
A 1010 mb low pressure system (94L) near the Florida Keys is generating disorganized heavy thunderstorms over Florida and the adjacent waters, and could become a tropical or subtropical depression as early as Wednesday. Current Key West radar shows the rotation of the storm, but the thunderstorm activity has not yet organized into low-level spiral bands. A few areas in the Keys and extreme South Florida have seen 1 - 2 inches of rain thus far from 94L. Wind shear is currently a moderate 10 - 20 knots over 94L, and water temperatures are very warm, 30 - 31°C. Water vapor satellite imagery shows that 94L is forming beneath an upper-level low with plenty of dry air, and there is a substantial flow of dry, continental air wrapping into 94L. This dry air is retarding the development of 94L, and may force the storm to organize into a subtropical storm instead of a tropical storm. A subtropical storm typically has a large, cloud free center of circulation, with very heavy thunderstorm activity in a band removed at least 100 miles from the center. The difference between a subtropical storm and a tropical storm is not that important as far as the winds they can generate, but tropical storms generate more rain. There is no such thing as a subtropical hurricane. If a subtropical storm intensifies enough to have hurricane force winds, than it must have become fully tropical. It usually takes at least two days for a subtropical storm to make the transition to a tropical storm.

Forecast for 94L
The latest SHIPS model forecast predicts that wind shear will stay in the moderate range, 10 - 20 knots, over the Gulf of Mexico this week. The storm's main problem will be dry air, and I don't expect 94L to undergo rapid development. Most of the models bring 94L ashore over Louisiana by Thursday, though the GFDL model predicts 94L could stall off the coast and not make landfall until Friday. If 94L does make landfall Thursday, it is unlikely to be a hurricane, due to all the dry air aloft in the Gulf. However, the GFDL model is predicting that the 1-day delay in landfall to Friday will allow 94L enough time to grow fully tropical and intensify into a Category 1 hurricane. I think this solution is unlikely. Storms that get their start underneath a cold, dry, upper-level low very rarely attain hurricane strength in three days. A 40 - 50 mph tropical or subtropical storm at landfall Thursday or Friday is a much more reasonable forecast.

93L
A tropical wave (Invest 93) in the middle Atlantic Ocean is close to tropical depression status. The disturbance has a well-defined surface circulation, but only a limited amount of heavy thunderstorm activity, thanks to dry air and wind shear of 10 - 20 knots affecting it due to a large upper-level low pressure system to the west. Wind shear is expected to stay in the moderate range, 10 - 20 knots, over the next four days, which is low enough that 93L could become a tropical depression at any time during that period. NHC is giving 93L a 60% chance of developing into a tropical depression by Thursday morning. The GFS, GFDL, and HWRF models predict 93L will develop, and the GFDL forecasts that the storm will become a hurricane. A strong trough of low pressure moving across the central Atlantic is recurving 93L to the north, and the system should only be a concern to shipping interests. None of the reliable computer models are forecasting tropical cyclone development in the Atlantic over the next seven days, other than for 93L and 94L.

Moscow hits 99°F again today
Temperatures at Moscow's Domodedovo airport hit 37°C (99°F) today, the 28th day in row that temperatures have exceeded 30°C (86°F) in Moscow. The average high temperature for August 10 is 21°C (69°F). Moscow's high temperature have averaged 15°C (27°F) above average for the first ten days of August--a truly extraordinary anomaly. Smog and smoke from wildfires continued to blanket the city today, with the Russian Meteorological Agency reporting that pollution due to carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, ozone, and hydrocarbons exceeding the safe limit by factors of 1.2 - 2.2. Air pollution levels peaked at 6.5 times the safe level on Saturday. As I reported in yesterday's post, the heat wave has likely killed at least 15,000 people in Russia so far. There is some slight relief in sight--the latest forecast for Moscow calls for high temperatures of 31 - 33°C (88 - 91°F) Wednesday though Sunday--still 20°F above normal, but better than the 27°F above normal so far this month.

"Hurricane Haven" airing again this afternoon
Tune into another airing of my live Internet radio show, "Hurricane Haven", at 4pm EDT today. Listeners will be able to call in and ask questions. The call in number is 415-983-2634, or you can post a question in the comments area on my blog during the show. You can also email the questions to me today before the show: jmasters@wunderground.com. Be sure to include "Hurricane Haven question" in the subject line. Some topics I'll cover today on the show:

1) Invest 94 and 93
2) A look ahead at the coming two weeks
3) Status of La Niña

Today's show will be about 30 minutes, and you can tune in at http://www.wunderground.com/wxradio/wubroadcast.h tml. The show will be recorded and stored as a podcast.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Flood
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1951. weatherwart 11:31 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting MississippiWx:
TD5 needs to put on a convective burst tonight if it wants to become a hurricane.


What affect do you think this big ridge up to the north will have on it, if any?

Link
Member Since: Agosto 18, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 873
1952. wdtcnewsonlinewx 11:31 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
NHC is now issuing advisories on Tropical Depression 5.
Member Since: Giugno 1, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 82
1953. cyclonekid 11:32 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
000
WTNT25 KNHC 102330
TCMAT5
TROPICAL DEPRESSION FIVE SPECIAL FORECAST/ADVISORY NUMBER 1
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL052010
2330 UTC WED AUG 11 2010

CHANGES IN WATCHES AND WARNINGS WITH THIS ADVISORY...

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR THE NORTHERN GULF OF
MEXICO COAST FROM DESTIN FLORIDA TO INTRACOASTAL CITY
LOUISIANA...INCLUDING LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN AND NEW ORLEANS.

SUMMARY OF WATCHES AND WARNINGS IN EFFECT...

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR...
* DESTIN FLORIDA TO INTRACOASTAL CITY LOUISIANA...INCLUDING LAKE
PONTCHARTRAIN AND NEW ORLEANS

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING MEANS THAT TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS ARE
EXPECTED SOMEWHERE WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN 36 HOURS.

TROPICAL DEPRESSION CENTER LOCATED NEAR 26.0N 84.1W AT 11/2330Z
POSITION ACCURATE WITHIN 60 NM

PRESENT MOVEMENT TOWARD THE NORTHWEST OR 315 DEGREES AT 5 KT

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE 1007 MB
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS 30 KT WITH GUSTS TO 40 KT.
WINDS AND SEAS VARY GREATLY IN EACH QUADRANT. RADII IN NAUTICAL
MILES ARE THE LARGEST RADII EXPECTED ANYWHERE IN THAT QUADRANT.

REPEAT...CENTER LOCATED NEAR 26.0N 84.1W AT 11/2330Z
AT 10/1800Z CENTER WAS LOCATED NEAR 25.7N 83.9W

FORECAST VALID 11/0600Z 26.8N 85.1W
MAX WIND 30 KT...GUSTS 40 KT.

FORECAST VALID 11/1800Z 28.1N 87.0W
MAX WIND 35 KT...GUSTS 45 KT.
34 KT... 75NE 75SE 50SW 75NW.

FORECAST VALID 12/0600Z 29.0N 89.0W
MAX WIND 40 KT...GUSTS 50 KT.
34 KT... 75NE 75SE 50SW 75NW.

FORECAST VALID 12/1800Z 29.7N 90.6W...INLAND
MAX WIND 30 KT...GUSTS 40 KT.

FORECAST VALID 13/1800Z 31.0N 92.0W...INLAND
MAX WIND 25 KT...GUSTS 35 KT.

EXTENDED OUTLOOK. NOTE...ERRORS FOR TRACK HAVE AVERAGED NEAR 200 NM
ON DAY 4 AND 250 NM ON DAY 5...AND FOR INTENSITY NEAR 20 KT EACH DAY

OUTLOOK VALID 14/1800Z 33.0N 90.5W...POST-TROP/REMNT LOW
MAX WIND 20 KT...GUSTS 25 KT.

REQUEST FOR 3 HOURLY SHIP REPORTS WITHIN 300 MILES OF 26.0N 84.1W

NEXT ADVISORY AT 11/0300Z

$$
FORECASTER PASCH
Member Since: Luglio 14, 2009 Posts: 51 Comments: 1629
1954. gator23 11:32 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting sammywammybamy:
Andrew and Katrina are Equal as the Worst Storms.

Andrew Wiped Homestead Off the Map By WIND

Katrina Wiped New Orleans Off with STORM SURGE

Each Storm had its Variable

yup that is how I view it as well
Member Since: Agosto 26, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1994
1955. Couillon 11:32 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Wow,so now we compare storm sizes?I say we let old wounds heal.jmo
Member Since: Agosto 8, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 167
1956. antonio28 11:32 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
000
WTNT25 KNHC 102330
TCMAT5
TROPICAL DEPRESSION FIVE SPECIAL FORECAST/ADVISORY NUMBER 1
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL052010
2330 UTC WED AUG 11 2010

CHANGES IN WATCHES AND WARNINGS WITH THIS ADVISORY...

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR THE NORTHERN GULF OF
MEXICO COAST FROM DESTIN FLORIDA TO INTRACOASTAL CITY
LOUISIANA...INCLUDING LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN AND NEW ORLEANS.

SUMMARY OF WATCHES AND WARNINGS IN EFFECT...

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR...
* DESTIN FLORIDA TO INTRACOASTAL CITY LOUISIANA...INCLUDING LAKE
PONTCHARTRAIN AND NEW ORLEANS

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING MEANS THAT TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS ARE
EXPECTED SOMEWHERE WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN 36 HOURS.

TROPICAL DEPRESSION CENTER LOCATED NEAR 26.0N 84.1W AT 11/2330Z
POSITION ACCURATE WITHIN 60 NM

PRESENT MOVEMENT TOWARD THE NORTHWEST OR 315 DEGREES AT 5 KT

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE 1007 MB
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS 30 KT WITH GUSTS TO 40 KT.
WINDS AND SEAS VARY GREATLY IN EACH QUADRANT. RADII IN NAUTICAL
MILES ARE THE LARGEST RADII EXPECTED ANYWHERE IN THAT QUADRANT.

REPEAT...CENTER LOCATED NEAR 26.0N 84.1W AT 11/2330Z
AT 10/1800Z CENTER WAS LOCATED NEAR 25.7N 83.9W

FORECAST VALID 11/0600Z 26.8N 85.1W
MAX WIND 30 KT...GUSTS 40 KT.

FORECAST VALID 11/1800Z 28.1N 87.0W
MAX WIND 35 KT...GUSTS 45 KT.
34 KT... 75NE 75SE 50SW 75NW.

FORECAST VALID 12/0600Z 29.0N 89.0W
MAX WIND 40 KT...GUSTS 50 KT.
34 KT... 75NE 75SE 50SW 75NW.

FORECAST VALID 12/1800Z 29.7N 90.6W...INLAND
MAX WIND 30 KT...GUSTS 40 KT.

FORECAST VALID 13/1800Z 31.0N 92.0W...INLAND
MAX WIND 25 KT...GUSTS 35 KT.

EXTENDED OUTLOOK. NOTE...ERRORS FOR TRACK HAVE AVERAGED NEAR 200 NM
ON DAY 4 AND 250 NM ON DAY 5...AND FOR INTENSITY NEAR 20 KT EACH DAY

OUTLOOK VALID 14/1800Z 33.0N 90.5W...POST-TROP/REMNT LOW
MAX WIND 20 KT...GUSTS 25 KT.

REQUEST FOR 3 HOURLY SHIP REPORTS WITHIN 300 MILES OF 26.0N 84.1W

NEXT ADVISORY AT 11/0300Z

$$
FORECASTER PASCH


Yep we have TD 5!
Member Since: Luglio 15, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 799
1957. JLPR2 11:32 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting wdtcnewsonlinewx:
NHC is now issuing advisories on Tropical Depression 6.


*cough* 5 *cough* 5
LOL!
Member Since: Settembre 4, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 7487
1958. uncwhurricane85 11:32 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
If Ike would have hit NOLA at the right angle, it would have been worse than Katrina. At land fall katrina was a cat 3, and Ike was a borderline cat 2/3 with a much larger windfield which would have allowed for as just a large of build up of water alond the LA. Miss coast as Katrina
Member Since: Agosto 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 559
1959. IKE 11:33 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting Hardcoreweather2010:
A Tropical Storm watch will be issued from Morgan City, LA to Mobile, AL


Close....

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR THE NORTHERN GULF OF
MEXICO COAST FROM DESTIN FLORIDA TO INTRACOASTAL CITY
LOUISIANA...INCLUDING LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN AND NEW ORLEANS.
Member Since: Giugno 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
1960. Hardcoreweather2010 11:33 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting gator23:

where is that from?


from one of my sources :) Break points don't seem right but lets see what happens
Member Since: Gennaio 24, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 529
1962. Patrap 11:33 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Tomorrows is Action Plan Day 1 Activities for me now. CHeck Gen and Watersupplies. MAke preps for stowing gear to Evac with.

And recheck the Loose items in the yard and secure them if the threat approaches.
Member Since: Luglio 3, 2005 Posts: 371 Comments: 111403
1963. gator23 11:34 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting uncwhurricane85:
If Ike would have hit NOLA at the right angle, it would have been worse than Katrina. At land fall katrina was a cat 3, and Ike was a borderline cat 2/3 with a much larger windfield which would have allowed for as just a large of build up of water alond the LA. Miss coast as Katrina

Ike is the Chris Bosh of Hurricanes
Member Since: Agosto 26, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1994
1964. KATRINABILOXIGIRL 11:34 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting sammywammybamy:
Andrew and Katrina are Equal as the Worst Storms.

Andrew Wiped Homestead Off the Map By WIND

Katrina Wiped New Orleans Off with STORM SURGE

Each Storm had its Variable
For the LAST dang time.....New Orleans did not get destroyed by the storms surge. It was the levee's that did not hold because they werew never constructed as they should have been....As gator stated earlier, many areas got overshadowed by the flooding in New Orleans caused by the faulty levees...geesh....
Member Since: Luglio 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 324
1965. JLPR2 11:34 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
hm...
They have the disturbance east of Barbados east of the islands in 3 days.

Taking its time.
Member Since: Settembre 4, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 7487
1966. aquak9 11:35 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
IKE!!!

nuts or no nuts?? Rainman says I'd better get to bakin'...
Member Since: Agosto 13, 2005 Posts: 163 Comments: 25007
1967. MississippiWx 11:35 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
HWRF landfall around Lake Pontchartrain with 50kt winds and a pressure of 996mb.

Member Since: Luglio 15, 2006 Posts: 13 Comments: 8559
1968. IKE 11:35 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Just as Dr. Masters predicted on maximum winds......MAX WIND 40 KT...GUSTS 50 KT.
Member Since: Giugno 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
1969. JLPR2 11:35 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting fallinstorms:
2007-2008 is the forgotten season





Dean and Felix are hard to forget, sorry!
Member Since: Settembre 4, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 7487
1970. HurricaneKyle 11:35 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
TD5 on NHC site.
Member Since: Agosto 10, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 672
1971. Patrap 11:35 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Member Since: Luglio 3, 2005 Posts: 371 Comments: 111403
1972. cyclonekid 11:36 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Member Since: Luglio 14, 2009 Posts: 51 Comments: 1629
1974. IKE 11:36 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting aquak9:
IKE!!!

nuts or no nuts?? Rainman says I'd better get to bakin'...


LOL.
Member Since: Giugno 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
1975. Drakoen 11:36 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Member Since: Ottobre 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
1976. PRweathercenter 11:36 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting Patrap:


Been a few since then,,Ike pushed ina lotta Water as well as Gustav,,but I doubt we will see a Major from this ,,as time isnt gonna be in its favor.

But caution is urged when one gets going and ventilated well aloft so we will watch closely for sure.


yeah, here in Puerto Rico we watch anything that comes off of Africa
Member Since: Luglio 21, 2010 Posts: 57 Comments: 915
1977. msgambler 11:36 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
I think Watches and Warnings will move West as time progresses. A liitle too far East right now
Member Since: Febbraio 27, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 1120
1978. RuBRNded 11:37 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting Patrap:
Ike had a MAx storm Surge and took 74 Lives. Katrina had a 30 ft Storm Surge and took over 1500 in 3 States.

So in what way was Ike more destructive than Katrina?


Thats ridiculous.


I worked Katrina from Bay St Louis to Biloxi and Galveston for Ike as a disaster responder. I was deployed for 6 months for Katrina and 6 weeks for Ike. 30 feet of surge in Bat St Louis, 4-6 feet in Biloxi (tidal surge did damages clear past Mobile); compared to 1-10 feet from Galveston to LA/MS border.
Member Since: Luglio 29, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 319
1980. JLPR2 11:37 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting fallinstorms:
and katrina hit miss not lousianna

new orleans got the soft side

dean and felix are worse then katrina

but didn't hit america

so i guess they don't count

it only counts if it hits americaz


That's awfully cold!
Member Since: Settembre 4, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 7487
1981. wxhatt 11:37 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
radial velocity out of the Key West Radar is showing up to 26 knots in some of the thunderstorms.

Member Since: Ottobre 5, 2005 Posts: 2 Comments: 834
1982. MiamiHurricanes09 11:37 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
ZCZC MIATCDAT5 ALL
TTAA00 KNHC DDHHMM
TROPICAL DEPRESSION FIVE SPECIAL DISCUSSION NUMBER 1
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL052010
730 PM EDT TUE AUG 10 2010

AN AIR FORCE HURRICANE HUNTER PLANE HAS JUST COMPLETED ITS
RECONNAISSANCE MISSION OF THE LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM OVER THE
SOUTHEASTERN GULF OF MEXICO. THEY CONFIRMED THAT A SURFACE
CIRCULATION WAS PRESENT...AND THERE IS SUFFICIENT ORGANIZED DEEP
CONVECTION TO CLASSIFY THE SYSTEM AS A TROPICAL DEPRESSION AT THIS
TIME. SEA SURFACE TEMPERATURES ARE VERY WARM ALONG THE PROJECTED
PATH OF THE CYCLONE...BUT THE UPPER-LEVEL WIND ENVIRONMENT IS NOT
IDEAL FOR STRENGTHENING WITH INCREASING EASTERLY SHEAR OVER THE
SYSTEM AS DEPICTED BY THE GLOBAL MODELS. ONLY THE GFDL SOLUTION
SHOWS MORE THAN MODEST STRENGTHENING...BUT THAT MODEL HAS BEEN
KNOWN TO HAVE A HIGH BIAS AT TIMES. THE OFFICIAL WIND SPEED
FORECAST IS VERY CLOSE TO THE RELIABLE STATISTICAL/DYNAMICAL LGEM
INTENSITY GUIDANCE AND TO THE NUMERICAL INTENSITY CONSENSUS.

SINCE THE CENTER IS STILL A BIT BROAD...THE INITIAL MOTION...
315/05...IS MORE UNCERTAIN THAN USUAL. A MID-LEVEL RIDGE TO THE
NORTH SHOULD PRODUCE A TURN TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST WITH SOME
ACCELERATION DURING THE NEXT 24 TO 36 HOURS. THE OFFICIAL TRACK
FORECAST IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE DYNAMICAL CONSENSUS.

GIVEN THAT THIS SPECIAL ADVISORY IS BEING ISSUED SO CLOSE TO THE
TIME OF THE SCHEDULED INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY...THE NEXT ADVISORY ON
THIS SYSTEM WILL BE AT 0300 UTC.

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INITIAL 11/2330Z 26.0N 84.1W 30 KT
12HR VT 11/0600Z 26.8N 85.1W 30 KT
24HR VT 11/1800Z 28.1N 87.0W 35 KT
36HR VT 12/0600Z 29.0N 89.0W 40 KT
48HR VT 12/1800Z 29.7N 90.6W 30 KT...INLAND
72HR VT 13/1800Z 31.0N 92.0W 25 KT...INLAND
96HR VT 14/1800Z 33.0N 90.5W 20 KT...POST-TROP/REMNT LOW

$$
FORECASTER PASCH/KIMBERLAIN

NNNN
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2009 Posts: 129 Comments: 19976
1983. PRweathercenter 11:37 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Tropical Storm Public Advisory


Statement as of 7:30 PM EDT on August 10, 2010


...Tropical depression forms over the southeastern Gulf of Mexico...




summary of 730 PM EDT...2330 UTC...information
----------------------------------------------
location...26.0n 84.1w
about 260 mi...420 km SSE of Apalachicola Florida
about 375 mi...600 km se of the mouth of the Mississippi River
maximum sustained winds...35 mph...55 km/hr
present movement...NW or 315 degrees at 6 mph...9 km/hr
minimum central pressure...1007 mb...29.74 inches




watches and warnings
--------------------
changes with this advisory...


a Tropical Storm Warning has been issued for the northern Gulf of
Mexico coast from Destin Florida to Intracoastal City
Louisiana...including Lake Pontchartrain and New Orleans.


Summary of watches and warnings in effect...


a Tropical Storm Warning is in effect for...
* Destin Florida to Intracoastal City Louisiana...including Lake
Pontchartrain and New Orleans


a Tropical Storm Warning means that tropical storm conditions are
expected somewhere within the warning area within 36 hours.


For storm information specific to your area in the United
States...including possible inland watches and warnings...please
monitor products issued by your local National Weather Service
forecast office.


Discussion and 48-hour outlook
------------------------------
at 730 PM EDT...2330 UTC...the center of Tropical Depression Five
was located near latitude 26.0 north...longitude 84.1 west. The
depression is moving toward the northwest near 6 mph...9 km/hr a
gradual turn toward the west-northwest with an increase in forward
speed is expected on Wednesday. On the forecast track...the center
of the tropical cyclone will be approaching the north central Gulf
of Mexico by late Wednesday or early Thursday.


Maximum sustained winds are near 35 mph...55 km/hr...with higher
gusts. Slow strengthening is expected...and the depression is
forecast to become a tropical storm on Wednesday.

Estimated minimum central pressure is 1007 mb...29.74 inches.




Hazards affecting land
----------------------
rainfall...total rain accumulations of 3 to 5 inches with isolated
maximum amounts of 8 to 10 inches are possible along the northern
and northeastern Gulf of Mexico coast.

Wind...tropical storm conditions are expected to begin affecting the
Tropical Storm Warning area by late Wednesday...making outside
preparations difficult or dangerous.

Storm surge...a storm surge will raise water levels by as much as 2
to 4 feet above ground level along the immediate coast near and to
the east of where the center makes landfall.




Next advisory
-------------
next advisory...1100 PM EDT.


$$
Forecaster Pasch/Kimberlain
Member Since: Luglio 21, 2010 Posts: 57 Comments: 915
1984. Drakoen 11:37 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting IKE:
Just as Dr. Masters predicted on maximum winds......MAX WIND 40 KT...GUSTS 50 KT.


Except that has not occurred yet.
Member Since: Ottobre 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
1985. ElConando 11:38 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
A couple interesting facts.

Andrew was an unusual Hurricane as most of its damage and death was wind related due to its small size. Katrina was unusual for the U.S. in recent Hurricane history because it caused most of its deaths were caused by storm surge alone. Before Katrina only 1% of deaths occurred from storm surge in America between 1970-1999 which I find interesting. The findings are from Ed Rappaport.It would be far higher of a percentage if figures from 1900-1969 were added.

90% of deaths in TC's are caused by surge and its affects.

Member Since: Settembre 6, 2009 Posts: 2 Comments: 3703
1986. TropicalAnalystwx13 11:38 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
I definitely do not agree with the NHC's wind forecast for TD #5
Member Since: Luglio 6, 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25290
1989. msgambler 11:39 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting fallinstorms:
and katrina hit miss not lousianna

new orleans got the soft side

dean and felix are worse then katrina

but didn't hit america

so i guess they don't count

it only counts if it hits americaz
You are clueless. It hit LA before it got to MS. Pay attention man. That little part of realestate that the MS Rive flows into is parf of LA not MS. WOW simply clueless.
Member Since: Febbraio 27, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 1120
1990. PRweathercenter 11:39 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Member Since: Luglio 21, 2010 Posts: 57 Comments: 915
1992. MiamiHurricanes09 11:40 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
I definitely do not agree with the NHC's wind forecast for TD #5
Same here. This could end up as a strong tropical storm/minimal hurricane IMO.
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2009 Posts: 129 Comments: 19976
1996. tornadolarkin 11:41 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
I think the NHC may be under-estimating the possible strength of TD5. Any thoughts?
Member Since: Maggio 1, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 352
1997. IKE 11:41 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
SEA SURFACE TEMPERATURES ARE VERY WARM ALONG THE PROJECTED
PATH OF THE CYCLONE...BUT THE UPPER-LEVEL WIND ENVIRONMENT IS NOT
IDEAL FOR STRENGTHENING
WITH INCREASING EASTERLY SHEAR OVER THE
SYSTEM AS DEPICTED BY THE GLOBAL MODELS.
.......


No rapid intensification based on what the NHC says. The gulf coast will survive. This should be inland in 2 days.
Member Since: Giugno 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
1998. UpperLevelLOL 11:41 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Time to get some popcorn ready and watch the advisories roll on in
Member Since: Settembre 1, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 129
1999. JLPR2 11:41 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
Quoting sammywammybamy:


Fallinstorms is a "_____"

Thats why i ignored him the first day he showed up...

Dean and Felix Were both CAT 5'S and Killed a lot of more People than Katrina...

This Shows you Some of the Ignorance People Have...

America Isnt the Only Counrty that is Affected by Hurricanes


- Sammywammybamy (South Eastren Florida)


Amen!
Member Since: Settembre 4, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 7487
2000. MrNatural 11:42 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    
It's my impression that 94L is continuing to be influenced by the ULL that is now to the NW of 94L. 94l continues to move very slowly NW now. I'm thinking that it will turn more westerly over the next 12 hours. As long as it dances with that ULL, intensity will not ramp up even when water temperature values are considered.
Member Since: Luglio 28, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 194
2001. dacoonass 11:42 PM GMT del 10 Agosto 2010    

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Tropical Depression FIVE Forecast/Advisory
Home Public Adv Fcst/Adv Discussion Wind Probs Maps/Charts Archive

US Watch/Warning

000
WTNT25 KNHC 102330
TCMAT5
TROPICAL DEPRESSION FIVE SPECIAL FORECAST/ADVISORY NUMBER 1
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL052010
2330 UTC WED AUG 11 2010

CHANGES IN WATCHES AND WARNINGS WITH THIS ADVISORY...

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR THE NORTHERN GULF OF
MEXICO COAST FROM DESTIN FLORIDA TO INTRACOASTAL CITY
LOUISIANA...INCLUDING LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN AND NEW ORLEANS.

SUMMARY OF WATCHES AND WARNINGS IN EFFECT...

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR...
* DESTIN FLORIDA TO INTRACOASTAL CITY LOUISIANA...INCLUDING LAKE
PONTCHARTRAIN AND NEW ORLEANS

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING MEANS THAT TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS ARE
EXPECTED SOMEWHERE WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN 36 HOURS.

TROPICAL DEPRESSION CENTER LOCATED NEAR 26.0N 84.1W AT 11/2330Z
POSITION ACCURATE WITHIN 60 NM

PRESENT MOVEMENT TOWARD THE NORTHWEST OR 315 DEGREES AT 5 KT

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE 1007 MB
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS 30 KT WITH GUSTS TO 40 KT.
WINDS AND SEAS VARY GREATLY IN EACH QUADRANT. RADII IN NAUTICAL
MILES ARE THE LARGEST RADII EXPECTED ANYWHERE IN THAT QUADRANT.

REPEAT...CENTER LOCATED NEAR 26.0N 84.1W AT 11/2330Z
AT 10/1800Z CENTER WAS LOCATED NEAR 25.7N 83.9W

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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