Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

A new record minimum for arctic sea ice
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 03:07 PM GMT del 18 novembre 2009 +4
Arctic sea ice reached a new record minimum during the first half of November, according to data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (Figure 1). The record low ice extent this month is the first extended period of record minimum arctic sea ice since 2007. The new record minimum suggests that the gains in ice seen over the past two years were probably a temporary fluctuation due to normal year-to-year variability in the weather, and that the long-term arctic sea ice decline observed since the 1970s is continuing.


Figure 1. Arctic sea ice extent up to November 16, 2009, compared to the record low year of 2007 and the average from 1979 - 2000. Sea ice extent over the past ten days has fallen below the record minimum observed in 2007. Image credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center.

What caused the new record low?
The record low was due to very warm air invading the Arctic during October, in combination with the unusually warm ocean temperatures that have prevailed in the region over the past few decades. The warm air temperatures were primarily the result of an intense series of low pressure systems in the Arctic Ocean, north of Siberia, that worked in concert with a very strong high pressure system north of Alaska to drive warm air from Central Asia poleward over the past six weeks. The strong storms and unusual pressure pattern brought winds of about 5 mph above average to large regions of the Arctic Ocean, which helped break up existing ice and kept ice from freezing as much as usual. With all that warm air flowing into the Arctic, the cold air that was there had to go somewhere else, and that "somewhere else" was North America. The U.S. recorded its 3rd coldest October on record in 2009, thanks to cold air flowing out of the Arctic. The temperature and sea level pressure patterns over the Northern Hemisphere for October (Figure 2) were highly anomalous, with temperatures up to 27°F (15°C) above average over the Arctic Ocean, and sea level pressures up to 11 mb above average. The atmospheric circulation pattern has shifted over the past two weeks, with the result that warm air from Central Asia is no longer being pumped into the Arctic so vigorously, nor is cold air from the Arctic streaming southward into North America. As a result, temperature anomalies in the Arctic are beginning to decline, and sea ice extent later this month will probably rise above the record minimums observed in 2007.



Figure 2. Departure of surface air temperature and surface pressure from average for October 2009. Surface temperatures in the Arctic were up to 27°F (15°C) above average over the Arctic Ocean, due to sea ice loss. The strongest anomalies occurred where sea ice was missing from its usual position, though the entire Arctic was affected. The clockwise flow of air around the anomalously strong high pressure system north of Alaska (labeled "H" in the right-hand image) helped drive a flow of very warm air from Central Asia into the Arctic, and a very cold flow of air out of the Arctic southward into North America. Image credit: NOAA/ESRL.

How will the November sea ice loss affect next summer's sea ice loss?
A record 19% of the Arctic sea ice cover this summer in the Arctic was over 2 years old, far below the 1981 - 2000 average of 52%. In the summer of 2009, NASA researcher Ron Kwok and colleagues from the University of Washington in Seattle published satellite data showing that mean winter arctic ice thickness declined by 48% between 1980 and 2008. The loss accelerated over the past five years, with the ice losing 0.68 meters (2.2 feet) of thickness between 2004 and 2008, finishing at 6.2 feet thick. This remarkable thinning was confirmed in May 2009 by the Catlin Arctic Survey, a 9-week, 435 km expedition across the Canadian Arctic led by polar scientist Professor Peter Wadhams of the University of Cambridge. Wadhams' expedition found that most of the route had first year ice just 5.9 feet (1.8 meters) thick. With El Niño conditions crossing from the moderate to strong category over the past two weeks in the Eastern Pacific, the prospects for a much warmer than usual winter in the Arctic have increased, likely setting the stage for continued record or near-record minimum sea ice extent and thickness into next spring. The arctic sea ice will be very vulnerable to a new record minimum next summer if warmer than average temperatures are seen over the Arctic.

Sea ice loss causes stronger storms in the Arctic
The stronger storms over the Arctic Ocean this fall were due, in part, to the loss of sea ice. In a 2009 article titled, Extraordinary September Arctic sea ice reductions and their relationships with storm behavior over 1979-2008, Simmonds and Keay found that September storms over the East Arctic intensified by about 1 mb over the past 30 years and had grown about 50 miles larger in diameter, thanks to all the extra heat energy supplied by more open water due to recent losses in Arctic sea ice. These stronger storms may create a positive feedback loop that will lead to even more sea ice loss: reduced sea ice drives stronger storms, whose winds break up sea ice, creating even more warm water to feed stronger storms with stronger winds, and so on. Now that the arctic sea ice is 48% thinner than 30 years ago, this effect will increase in importance, since thinner ice breaks up more readily in strong winds.

Expect an ice-free Arctic by 2030
In a press release put out by the Catlin Arctic Survey, Professor Wadhams said, "The Catlin Arctic Survey data supports the new consensus view--based on seasonal variation of ice extent and thickness, changes in temperatures, winds and especially ice composition--that the Arctic will be ice-free in summer within about 20 years, and that much of the decrease will be happening within 10 years". In their 2009 report on this year's Arctic sea ice minimum, National Snow and Ice Data Center Director and Senior Scientist Dr. Mark Serreze said, "It's nice to see a little recovery over the past couple years, but there's no reason to think that we're headed back to conditions seen back in the 1970s. We still expect to see ice-free summers sometime in the next few decades". At the December 2008 American Geophysical Union (AGU) meeting, the world's largest climate change conference, sea ice expert Dr. Wieslaw Maslowski of the Navy Postgraduate School blamed 60% of the melting during the past decade on heat brought in by ocean currents, and projected that summertime arctic sea ice would completely disappear by 2016. Dr. Jim Overland of NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory was more conservative, projecting a 2030 demise of arctic sea ice. He thought we would be "hanging around where we are for a while", and thought it would take two more unusual summers like the "perfect storm" of 2007 to push the system to an ice-free state.

The consequences
There were 88 presentations on arctic sea ice at the 2008 AGU conference. None of the presenters expressed the view that the current long-term decline in arctic sea ice was almost entirely natural, or that we can expect the decline to reverse this century. Sea ice experts do blame part of the decline on natural variability in the weather, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the warming caused by human-emitted greenhouse gases. One view (Stroeve et al., 2007) is that human-emitted greenhouse gases are responsible for 47 - 57% of the arctic sea ice loss since 1979. Heat-absorbing black soot from fires and pollution settling on the white ice is thought to also be a significant contributor.

The consensus I heard at the AGU conference among arctic sea ice experts was that the summertime sea ice will be gone by 2030. If they are correct, we can expect a period of significantly accelerated global climate change to begin 10 - 20 years from now. Arctic sea ice is one of the critical components maintaining the stability of our current climate. Once the the ice is gone, the climate will become unstable, with highly unpredictable results. It is true that Earth's past has many examples of warmer climates that evolved due to natural causes where life flourished, and we shouldn't fear the new, stable climate we will eventually arrive at centuries from now. However, life on Earth is adapted to the current climate. The changes that will occur during the transition will be extremely disruptive to Earth's ecosystems and the humans that rely on them for life. If one were to rate the destructive capability of climate change the way we rate hurricanes, I would rate current climate change at the "Invest" or "tropical disturbance" stage--the climate change storm is just beginning to organize. But the coming climate change storm is destined to hit our children with the full fury of intensifying hurricane.

References
Kwok, R., and D. A. Rothrock. 2009, "Decline in Arctic sea ice thickness from submarine and ICESat records: 1958-2008", Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L15501, doi:10.1029/2009GL039035

Simmonds, I., and K. Keay (2009), Extraordinary September Arctic sea ice reductions and their relationships with storm behavior over 1979.2008, Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L19715, doi:10.1029/2009GL039810.

Stroeve, J., M.M. Holland, W. Meier, T. Scambos, and M. Serreze, Arctic sea ice decline:Faster than forecast", GRL 34 L09501, doi:1029/2007GL029703, 2007.

The road to Copenhagen
By some accounts, the future of the world will be at stake this December, when the crucial U.N. Climate Change Conference will be held December 7 - 18 in Copenhagen, Denmark. At that meeting, the leaders of the world will gather to negotiate an agreement to replace the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. The new agreement will be the world's road map for dealing with climate change, and the stakes are huge. Dr. Ricky Rood, author of Wunderground's climate change blog, will be there, and Wunderground has given the University of Michigan a grant to send a student who will also blog for us. I have a number of posts I'm planning in the run-up to Copenhagen, including:

- Impact of arctic sea ice loss on Northern Hemisphere winter weather
- The Manufactured Doubt industry
- What global warming skeptics say about arctic sea ice
- Is higher CO2 more beneficial for Earth's ecosystems?

I'll also have an end-of-hurricane season summary on November 30, plus posts on whatever breaking weather stories occur. My next post will be Friday, when I plan to summarize the global weather last month, which was the 2nd - 6th warmest October on record.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Climate Change Sea Ice
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701. atmoaggie 03:03 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting FSUCOOPman:
@ #670

Forgive my naivete, but I just did a bunch of reading about this CRU hack thing from multiple sources and actually read some of the leaked emails, etc...

IFthis is found to all be true, it looks like there might be some cover up to keep facilitating the GW concerns.

But, and here's where I don't know about how things work in the grand scheme of professional climatology agencies\groups... This isn't the ONLY place that has shown GW data, or is it? Are they the lead or major governing authority on this information for the world or simply 1 of many?

Sorry everyone... this is intriguing to me, and I just don't understand how all of the pieces to the puzzle fit together. It seems like this is HUGE news, but maybe it's next to nothing...


Well, the emails I saw in a quick look at a couple of sites gives the impression of data manipulation and more concern about the political and public appearance of data and graphs than the science of the data itself. And telling BBC who they want to be reporting because the other guy was too critical?

The players and said data are the literal backbone of the IPCC. These are the long term temperature data sets, using proxies, that show recent warming being quantitatively beyond anything in recent geological history and also changing faster than any historical period. CRU is one of many...now...but is also a source of very many of the more extreme data analyses and predictions. A big loss of credibility there, well, that would tough for the believers.

Even for them to (now) publicly admit that they/we do not know exactly why the climate has done what is has for the last 10 years, alone, only empowers those of us that think the climate-change do-something-now crowd is a little arrogant in claiming we know all there is about natural climate forcing, when clearly (to myself, anyway) that is not the case.
Member Since: Agosto 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
702. TampaSpin 03:03 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Morning everyone.....LOOK like my NorEaster is developing.....OUCH just in time for the Thanksgiving rush. Won't this be interesting.
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
703. holynova 03:04 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting IKE:


Gainesville, FL......

"Saturday: A 40 percent chance of showers, mainly after 1pm. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 77. East wind between 3 and 7 mph.

Saturday Night: A 50 percent chance of showers. Cloudy, with a low around 61. Southeast wind around 5 mph."
Thank you.
704. NEwxguy 03:07 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Hey,Tampa,wheres this thing heading,not much mention of anything up here.
Member Since: Settembre 6, 2007 Posts: 816 Comments: 13120
705. AussieStorm 03:12 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Slashing records in the east

Much of New South Wales remained 10C(50F) to 20C(68F) above their November average today with records being reigned in across the state.

The hottest today was felt through the Upper Western where Wanaaring and Brewarrina reached 14C(57F) above average at 46C(114.8F), making it their hottest November day on record.

Other November records broken through the state were at Cobar, Condobolin, Forbes and Trangie all reaching a toasty 45 degrees. Dubbo and Dunedoo also broke records reaching 43 degrees, while Scone and West Wyalong broke their November records at 42C(107.6F).

On the ranges, Mudgee also set a new November record reaching 41C(105.8F) and Bathurst at 39C(102.2F).

Around Sydney inland areas reached into the lower 40C's(104F's) while a seabreeze kept coastal areas a bit cooler. Penrith and Campbelltown both reach 42C(107.6F), a temperature not felt in November for five years. The city still rose nine degrees above average to 33C(91.4F) before that seabreeze kicked in.

The hot air is being funneled ahead of a cooler change that is making its way across the south. Melbourne saw temperatures drop 12C(53.6F) in just one hour as the change whipped through this afternoon.

- Weatherzone
Member Since: Settembre 30, 2007 Posts: 5 Comments: 13345
706. TampaSpin 03:13 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Here is some great loops you can zoom in on!
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
707. atmoaggie 03:13 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
NWS NOLA discussion did say most of the lightning would likely stay offshore once the system pulled away from the lower TX coast...so far, right on.

I would personally prefer to not be in a boat out there...

Member Since: Agosto 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
708. SouthDadeFish 03:14 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting TampaSpin:
Morning everyone.....LOOK like my NorEaster is developing.....OUCH just in time for the Thanksgiving rush. Won't this be interesting.


Your NorEaster? I wanna buy one of those :)

70-80 knots of shear over the gulf according to CIMSS. Nice.
Member Since: Agosto 12, 2007 Posts: 11 Comments: 2418
709. TampaSpin 03:19 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting NEwxguy:
Hey,Tampa,wheres this thing heading,not much mention of anything up here.




They might want to start talking about it.....its coming right at you.....the GFS has been on top of this for a few days now.....here was my update from 11-17 also go to the Winter Weather update section and look at your temperature forecast...i have not looked at it yet.....rain or snow but its coming at you Bullseye!
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
710. hurricane23 03:19 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
It looks like we're starting to resemble an El Niño pattern with the increasing subtropical jet stream energy coming from Mexico and
the Pacific Ocean. The low in the Gulf for this weekend is a result of one of these shortwaves moving along the subtropical jet. There are also hints that a low or weak wave could form in the southern Gulf in about 7-9 days which is also a sign of an El Niño-like pattern trying to set up.

Even in solid El Niño years, it all depends on exactly where the jet stream and storm track sets up.In terms of weather across southeast florida small changes can affect our weather from warm and dry to cool and wet. In 2006-2007, a moderate El Niño, we ended up with a warm and dry winter for the most part. Going with the long-term trends, it's hard to go against the cooler and wetter scenario, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

adrian
Member Since: Maggio 14, 2006 Posts: 8 Comments: 13276
711. reedzone 03:19 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Looks like the storm is developing on cue as what the models projected. Thought with a GOM storm that severe weather would be an issue here in Florida, but models have the storm weak enough to just cause a few showers instead.
Member Since: Luglio 1, 2008 Posts: 13 Comments: 7247
712. TampaSpin 03:23 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting reedzone:
Looks like the storm is developing on cue as what the models projected. Thought with a GOM storm that severe weather would be an issue here in Florida, but models have the storm weak enough to just cause a few showers instead.


No way that is going to happen....i little more than a few showers is coming ......look at the loops...
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
713. beell 03:24 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting atmoaggie:


Well, the emails I saw in a quick look at a couple of sites gives the impression of data manipulation and more concern about the political and public appearance of data and graphs than the science of the data itself. And telling BBC who they want to be reporting because the other guy was too critical?

The players and said data are the literal backbone of the IPCC. These are the long term temperature data sets, using proxies, that show recent warming being quantitatively beyond anything in recent geological history and also changing faster than any historical period. CRU is one of many...now...but is also a source of very many of the more extreme data analyses and predictions. A big loss of credibility there, well, that would tough for the believers.

Even for them to (now) publicly admit that they/we do not know exactly why the climate has done what is has for the last 10 years, alone, only empowers those of us that think the climate-change do-something-now crowd is a little arrogant in claiming we know all there is about natural climate forcing, when clearly (to myself, anyway) that is not the case.


I'll remain skeptical that this little bit of net news is legitimate. Same skepticism reserved for the science of climate change. All of it lol!
Member Since: Settembre 11, 2007 Posts: 125 Comments: 12881
714. TampaSpin 03:26 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    


Little more than showers i would say...here is my Winter Weather section for those that need.
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
715. SQUAWK 03:26 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting hurricane23:
It looks like we're starting to resemble an El Niño pattern with the increasing subtropical jet stream energy coming from Mexico and
the Pacific Ocean. The low in the Gulf for this weekend is a result of one of these shortwaves moving along the subtropical jet. There are also hints that a low or weak wave could form in the southern Gulf in about 7-9 days which is also a sign of an El Niño-like pattern trying to set up.

Even in solid El Niño years, it all depends on exactly where the jet stream and storm track sets up.In terms of weather across southeast florida small changes can affect our weather from warm and dry to cool and wet. In 2006-2007, a moderate El Niño, we ended up with a warm and dry winter for the most part. Going with the long-term trends, it's hard to go against the cooler and wetter scenario, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

adrian


Hey "killer," good to see you.
Member Since: Dicembre 9, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2497
716. AwakeInMaryland 03:26 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
701. Atmo, thank you.

Saw a news story last night, and just did a quick google search of "ice core." Read several items by dedicated, credentialed scientists not looking for an axe to grind...and yet, research shows 6 degrees warmer and higher sea levels 125,000 years ago TO most acceleration in glacier ice melting (Mt. Kilimanjaro sp?) is last 30 years.

So, how to put 2 plus 2 together and not get 5?

Questions, will earth have repeat of conditions 125,000 years ago... and in approximately how many years?
Member Since: Agosto 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
717. RitaEvac 03:28 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Buoy 60 NM S of Freeport has been gusting to near 50mph with sustained winds of 35-40mph. Tight circulation is noted on long range 88D images out of HGX and CRP.

Impressive winds being reported off the coast with some of the platforms gusting to over 60mph. Winds gusted to 40mph at Eagle Point this morning and near 40mph at Freeport.
Member Since: Luglio 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8909
718. atmoaggie 03:30 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting beell:


I'll remain skeptical that this little bit of net news is legitimate. Same skepticism reserved for the science of climate change. All of it lol!

Oh, yeah. Me, too.
I am skeptical of...well anyone and everything to some degree. Moreso with anything involving this particular subject (in either direction).
Member Since: Agosto 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
719. jeffs713 03:30 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting TampaSpin:




They might want to start talking about it.....its coming right at you.....the GFS has been on top of this for a few days now.....here was my update from 11-17 also go to the Winter Weather update section and look at your temperature forecast...i have not looked at it yet.....rain or snow but its coming at you Bullseye!

Yep. The local NWS office here in Houston has been all over the development of this system for the past week. And during the past week, it has been consistently forecast to move along the coast and eventually make it off the east coast, and become a nor'easter. The biggest variable in the forecast so far is the intensity and exact timing.
Member Since: Agosto 3, 2008 Posts: 15 Comments: 5722
720. TampaSpin 03:35 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    


Looks like Snow from what i tell in the Northeast.....with this NorEaster..it will depend on the track as how far inland or off the coast this is.
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
721. NEwxguy 03:37 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
don't see much cold air with this system,so not too worried about snow,maybe in northern new england,but still looks like a sizable storm,should be fun to watch this come together.
Member Since: Settembre 6, 2007 Posts: 816 Comments: 13120
722. TampaSpin 03:37 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    


Here is the 72hr forecast for the NWS...
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
723. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 03:40 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    


AOI non tropical low
MARK
28N/94W
Member Since: Luglio 15, 2006 Posts: 143 Comments: 40559
724. beell 03:40 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting atmoaggie:

Oh, yeah. Me, too.
I am skeptical of...well anyone and everything to some degree. Moreso with anything involving this particular subject (in either direction).


I hear ya. Probably should correct that to read the "politics/economics of climate change".

Some of us may fear a shift in the balance of power more than a shift in the balance of climate. Certainly fosters an atmosphere ripe for fanatics and denialist's alike!
Member Since: Settembre 11, 2007 Posts: 125 Comments: 12881
725. TheCaneWhisperer 03:42 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Seems to be starting out further south than modeled.

726. NEwxguy 03:42 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
This time of year,with the warm ocean near by,needs a lot of cold air to get any snow out of it
Member Since: Settembre 6, 2007 Posts: 816 Comments: 13120
727. atmoaggie 03:43 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
most acceleration in glacier ice melting (Mt. Kilimanjaro sp?) is last 30 years.

Bad example. Kilimanjaro doesn't melt and has nothing at all to do with temperature. Has more to do with deforestation in recent times, but has been on the decline for at least 100s of years. All glaciers that have a tenuous existence and are in a location that allows for a very slow decline (in geological terms) have been declining since the last ice age. That is what they do in the interglacial periods.
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
Questions, will earth have repeat of conditions 125,000 years ago... and in approximately how many years?

Eventually, yes. When? You notice how round that 125,000 number is and that we didn't make it 125,001 years ago on Jan 1? Is a rough estimate using ice cores, where the age of layers are also an estimate. The temporal resolution of ice cores is so coarse, determining the variability associated with a 1-year, 10-year, 30-year, or even 100-year period is impossible. (Same goes for marrying surface obs or 30 years of satellite data on the scale of hours, days, months, or single years to the ice core results).
Member Since: Agosto 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
728. TampaSpin 03:43 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
I don't think some models especially the ones that forecast the Precp is on top of it yet...that should change today. These models update all day and on my Winter Weather site and stay current if anyone needs to check back later.



Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
729. TampaSpin 03:46 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting NEwxguy:
This time of year,with the warm ocean near by,needs a lot of cold air to get any snow out of it


Your correct about the water temps.....but the backside as it goes by is when the snow usually will occur this time of year....rain then snow which you already know and have seen it many times by living there.
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
730. pearlandaggie 03:54 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
731. AwakeInMaryland 03:58 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
727. re: Eventually, yes. LOL! Thanks for answering my earnest, albeit ignoramus questions.

Deforestation, now that is troubling, and mostly (all?) human-caused. But-- something that can be repaired, maybe not a total fix, but just won't accept gloom and doomsayers. Pottery mentioned a successful project in his corner of the world, only costs 20 cents a tree.

Hey, speaking of Pottery, where IS his rum-soaked, spouse-missing Diary? I look forward to installments!
Member Since: Agosto 19, 2008 Posts: 32 Comments: 1918
732. beell 03:58 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
repost pearland!
New Blog
Member Since: Settembre 11, 2007 Posts: 125 Comments: 12881
733. TampaSpin 04:16 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
For any Travelers flying i have a graphic on my home page that show flight delays if you right click and open up a new window it pops into the Federal Aviation for up to the second info on flights...its an amazing site.
Member Since: Settembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
734. winter123 09:07 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
Quoting IKE:
Cold-air moving into the east and SE USA by Turkey day and Friday....

6Z GFS @ 174 hours...


Are my eyes decieving me? 32 degree mark down to the gulf coast but not in upstate new york? Insane.
Member Since: Luglio 29, 2006 Posts: 28 Comments: 1700
735. winter123 09:09 PM GMT del 20 novembre 2009    
might be crazy but it seems like shear is weakening over x ida.

someone else said that models support it deepening and hitting the azores. This storm will just not die.
Member Since: Luglio 29, 2006 Posts: 28 Comments: 1700

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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